Curse

Skye Marin · Jul 01, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I've decided to do some more calculations. Previously, I calculated it takes 33 Character's Time worth of Rank 10 Sunspear Title farming, to earn one Rank 12 Luxon/Kurzick Title. Here's the quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

I just talked with two of the designers most intimately involved with skill design and balance, and they point out a few things: Luxon and Kurzick skills are not terribly difficult to acquire at the starter level, and they're designed to be worthwhile even at the lowest level. However, we agree that it's challenging to max out the skills. The skill design gives a range -- it allows relatively easy accessibility but also rewards players who put in the time to get the higher levels of the skill. Whether that's "grind" or whether that's simply rewarding those who put in the time, it's hard to say -- probably that depends on your point of view. The important thing to note is this: The Sunspear PvE-only skills apply to a character. The Kurzick/Luxon skills apply to an account. When you think about that, the higher acquisition bar seems appropriate. Given that fact -- which I believe some have not considered -- obviously the skill acquisition requirements will not be lowered to equal the Sunspear skill track.
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

I agree they should not be equal 1:1, that's fair. How about 2:1? 6:1?

Right now, to gain Rank 12 in Faction, it takes the equivalent amount of time as THIRTY-THREE characters to reach Rank 10 Sunspear.

I don't have 33 Characters.

Nobody should really have more than 10 PvE characters. I'd assume most have about 4, with one being PvP only.

Here is my math:

Sunspear Run: 3,250 / hour with Wurms.
Faction Run: 10k/hour doing repeatable quests, which is 20k/hour on the Title if donated.

This means per hour, you gain about 6 times as many Faction points than you would Sunspear points.

Rank 10 Sunspear is 50,000. Rank 12 Faction is 10,000,000.
Taking the time to do 50k Sunspear, doing Faction instead, is 6 times that, so 300k.

That's 3% of Rank 12 Faction. Repeat 33 times, you get almost 100%.

I see the problem here. Do you?

After that, Gaile said she does see the problem, and said she's pass it along. Note, that's the far end of the spectrum.

What about other equivalent title parts? Let's compare the ranks, Sunspear to Alligence:
1 to 1 (title existance and skill gain-ability),
5 to 6 (halfway on each track), and
8 to 10 (skill description limit)

In all the comparisons, we're still using the 6:1 ratio of time aquisition. Of course, this breaks down at the earliest stages of Sunspear title, but the numbers still show something.

1 to 1 - 50 Sunspear vs 100,000 Faction

6 x 50 = 300
100,000 / 300 = 333 Characters

To be able to simply aquire the Sunspear skill, you essentially only have to reach the Great Hall, and you'll most likely have that many points, including a Hero Skill Point. To be able to initially gain a Faction skill, you need many, many times the effort, plus many more times the effort to afford it with 3k faction.

5 to 6 - 500 Sunspear vs 1,200,000 Faction

6 x 500 = 3,000
1,200,000/3,000 = 400 Characters

It takes 400 times the amount of effort to get a character half-way to power a PvE Faction skill than a PvE Sunspear Skill. This is why simply reducing the maximum tier won't be enough.

The biggest grind difference is actually in the middle of the scale.
That's where it actually counts, you know. Also, remember that if the Faction is used to get Jade or Amber instead, it jumps up to 800. That's 100 Accounts worth of 8 characters each, all PvE, all with Rank 10 Sunspear.

Yes, 8 Guilds worth of Legendary Spearmarshals. That's a lot. :undecided:

8 to 10 - 7,500 Sunspear vs 5,000,000 Faction

6 x 7,500 = 45,000
5,000,000/45,000 = 111 Characters

Now you can see the Character difference coming closer to the original 33 Character estimate. Still, I know I don't have 33 Characters, and I definitely don't have 111 or even 400 Characters.

Most importantly, I want the maximum power of the Faction skills to be reachable, not neccessarily the maximum Faction Title Tier. At the very most, a 2:1 time sink ration to the Sunspear skills would be acceptable. I know I'm not going to get the Max Rank Sunspear on all my characters, but I do want Max Power Faction skills on at least one (and by default, that means all of them).

I hope this has educated a lot of you defending Anet of this, saying that one is character and the other is title. I agree that the effort shouldn't be 1:1, but 400 times the amount of effort is pretty darn significant in my eyes.